Wednesday, August 24, 2005
SetBack.....
My plans are suffering a set back so I thought I would take the time to write something that has been stirring inside myself lately. It might have to do with what Pat Robertson said I don't know. But here goes:
I remember back in the days when I first became a Christian. I mean probably later. Oh well when ever. I used to watch the 700 club all the time and TBN and Jimmy Swaggart and all those guys. I remember Jimmy Swaggart always saying words like audacity, and others of which now I can't remember. But he used to scream these while holding his bible towards the heavens and weep and sob and I was sold on the man. Then when he got caught doing the very things he preached against I knew why. He himself was caught in a terrible web, he knew of what he talked about. I believe he was so disgusted with himself, he knew he was not a strong man because he could not resist his urges. He hated the fact that he liked what he was doing. He knew he was not a decent man. I'm not excusing his behavior, but like someone just recently said to me, "Usually, the ones who profess being "Christian" the loudest are the ones who are the farthest from the mark and have some really deep sense of their own "sinfulness." I remember watching the news videos showing him slinking around in the "bad" parts of town with his jogging suit and head band. I felt sorry for him.
Not long afterwards there was a man who ran the "xxxx" gas station in our little town. He was a very nice man, his name was "xxxx". He and his family worked the gas station and the Pronto Pups stand. He had a couple boys and a girl. He loved Jimmy Swaggart and when all this came out he was devastated. He started drinking and hanging out in bars. A year later he was arrested and served time for molesting his daughter. I don't know what became of the rest of them. They sort of fell off the map. I don't know what happened inside him, but something snapped and he crossed that dreaded line.
This church I went to back in 81 in Poway was a wonderful church. I felt I really belonged there. The people were so nice and friendly. Loving and accepting. I went there over a year maybe two. I really became one of the "church family". I finally had what I thought were sisters, and there were men who I felt cared about me as a person and respected me, these I looked to as brothers. Then one day John Avanzini who was the pastor for the Main church in San Diego came to our church and said nobody was tithing enough and because of that the church doors were going to close. This he told us after they preached to us all the time about prosperity and God answering prayers and so forth and the importance of fellowship. This man is now a powerful televangelist and is still spouting the same things. We were a poor church, everybody struggling to get by. It didn't matter. The doors were closed after the service and never opened again. Gone were the church sisters, brothers and our loving pastor and his wife. Not long afterwards one of the former deacons left his wife and their 4 small children and took up with a teenager from the youth group. Everybody started falling apart. For months afterwards we would hear tales of what became of so and so, and most were not good and very sad.
There were many more things, but it was a gradual process and now I no longer trust organized religion or most of the men in the pulpit or on TV. All the promises that are spouted, all the high faluting crap just turns my stomach. But when I was going to that church inside myself I wanted to believe. It was always a struggle for me to believe but I kept trying. I felt I had some major flaw or defect that made me so different from everybody and unable to feel the same things they did, because while everybody was worshipping I was crying. I remember feeling in awe, but also more alienated then ever because those around me talked about feeling so close to God, and I just never did. I felt the closest I could come to God was to be in the presence of those who believed in him. I didn't have a clue as to what they were feeling or understand God's need to be worshipped. I just couldn't see him the way everybody said he was. I then became a very angry person, I don't know what or who I was angry at, but I couldn't express this anger so I became depressed instead. I have gotten so tired of looking at Christians and not seeing Christ that I can't tell you. I have become ashamed at the very name of Christian lately. I think those who walk quietly and speak gently are the ones who are heard the most, at least by me anyway.
I carry my beliefs deep down inside myself where no one can disturb them, no one can tell me they aren't right. My beliefs are somewhat fragile right now, and it has taken me a long time to get to the place where they sit comfortably inside. These beliefs are my own and I don't want anyone to trample on them. I believe the God I believe in knows this, and He wouldn't have it any other way.
¶ 8/24/2005 09:05:00 AM
My plans are suffering a set back so I thought I would take the time to write something that has been stirring inside myself lately. It might have to do with what Pat Robertson said I don't know. But here goes:
I remember back in the days when I first became a Christian. I mean probably later. Oh well when ever. I used to watch the 700 club all the time and TBN and Jimmy Swaggart and all those guys. I remember Jimmy Swaggart always saying words like audacity, and others of which now I can't remember. But he used to scream these while holding his bible towards the heavens and weep and sob and I was sold on the man. Then when he got caught doing the very things he preached against I knew why. He himself was caught in a terrible web, he knew of what he talked about. I believe he was so disgusted with himself, he knew he was not a strong man because he could not resist his urges. He hated the fact that he liked what he was doing. He knew he was not a decent man. I'm not excusing his behavior, but like someone just recently said to me, "Usually, the ones who profess being "Christian" the loudest are the ones who are the farthest from the mark and have some really deep sense of their own "sinfulness." I remember watching the news videos showing him slinking around in the "bad" parts of town with his jogging suit and head band. I felt sorry for him.
Not long afterwards there was a man who ran the "xxxx" gas station in our little town. He was a very nice man, his name was "xxxx". He and his family worked the gas station and the Pronto Pups stand. He had a couple boys and a girl. He loved Jimmy Swaggart and when all this came out he was devastated. He started drinking and hanging out in bars. A year later he was arrested and served time for molesting his daughter. I don't know what became of the rest of them. They sort of fell off the map. I don't know what happened inside him, but something snapped and he crossed that dreaded line.
This church I went to back in 81 in Poway was a wonderful church. I felt I really belonged there. The people were so nice and friendly. Loving and accepting. I went there over a year maybe two. I really became one of the "church family". I finally had what I thought were sisters, and there were men who I felt cared about me as a person and respected me, these I looked to as brothers. Then one day John Avanzini who was the pastor for the Main church in San Diego came to our church and said nobody was tithing enough and because of that the church doors were going to close. This he told us after they preached to us all the time about prosperity and God answering prayers and so forth and the importance of fellowship. This man is now a powerful televangelist and is still spouting the same things. We were a poor church, everybody struggling to get by. It didn't matter. The doors were closed after the service and never opened again. Gone were the church sisters, brothers and our loving pastor and his wife. Not long afterwards one of the former deacons left his wife and their 4 small children and took up with a teenager from the youth group. Everybody started falling apart. For months afterwards we would hear tales of what became of so and so, and most were not good and very sad.
There were many more things, but it was a gradual process and now I no longer trust organized religion or most of the men in the pulpit or on TV. All the promises that are spouted, all the high faluting crap just turns my stomach. But when I was going to that church inside myself I wanted to believe. It was always a struggle for me to believe but I kept trying. I felt I had some major flaw or defect that made me so different from everybody and unable to feel the same things they did, because while everybody was worshipping I was crying. I remember feeling in awe, but also more alienated then ever because those around me talked about feeling so close to God, and I just never did. I felt the closest I could come to God was to be in the presence of those who believed in him. I didn't have a clue as to what they were feeling or understand God's need to be worshipped. I just couldn't see him the way everybody said he was. I then became a very angry person, I don't know what or who I was angry at, but I couldn't express this anger so I became depressed instead. I have gotten so tired of looking at Christians and not seeing Christ that I can't tell you. I have become ashamed at the very name of Christian lately. I think those who walk quietly and speak gently are the ones who are heard the most, at least by me anyway.
I carry my beliefs deep down inside myself where no one can disturb them, no one can tell me they aren't right. My beliefs are somewhat fragile right now, and it has taken me a long time to get to the place where they sit comfortably inside. These beliefs are my own and I don't want anyone to trample on them. I believe the God I believe in knows this, and He wouldn't have it any other way.
¶ 8/24/2005 09:05:00 AM
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I feel the same way about my beliefs, Bridge. Hold them close and don't let anyone tell you any different.
bridgesitter
Hold on to your beliefs but also keep in mind that churches are made up of people. God is God. People are people - prone to many, many mistakes.
Ralph
Hold on to your beliefs but also keep in mind that churches are made up of people. God is God. People are people - prone to many, many mistakes.
Ralph
Thanks Aravis, but Ralph I have to beg to differ on this.
I think a man who holds authority or claims to anyway is not allowed the luxury of major mistakes. Our president, say he makes a mistake, and it costs thousands of lives. A minister makes a mistake and it also costs thousands of lives. They might die differently, but they still die.
I think a man who holds authority or claims to anyway is not allowed the luxury of major mistakes. Our president, say he makes a mistake, and it costs thousands of lives. A minister makes a mistake and it also costs thousands of lives. They might die differently, but they still die.
I have to disagree with you to a point. Because someone 'holds authority' doesn't make him/her super human. He is still prone to the same mistakes as any other man. Jim Swaggart, for instance, did a lot of good in his life, but so many people write him off as degenerate or unforgivable because of his sexual sins/weaknesses, the same sins and weaknesses many of them have. He destroyed his witness, true, by his sins and paid the very high price for it. Shame, humiliation, not just locally but before the whole world as the media had a hay day with it all. I don't know anyone I felt more sorrow for at the time. Did he sin? Yes indeedy. Is he human. Yes he is.
When one puts their faith in a man, any man, he is apt to be disappointed. Men, even the best ones, can have feet of clay. So can women. Because one reaches a position of authority doesn't mean he doesn't need the love, forgiveness and grace the Lord offers. One shouldn't go to church to worship the preacher or the building.
I won't go on; it would take a book. The church where the doors closed.. if that congregation was really interested, they could have started a church in someone's home, anywhere, started over. Because one door shuts doesn't mean another won't open. The fact is, a church building won't heat itself. If the people don't support the place financially, then it falls apart. Simple math.
People who don't want to worship, don't want to go to church, don't want to forgive or a host of other don't wants make choices, sinful choices, just as Swaggart et. al. did. No one is without sin. No one.
A minister making a mistake causing thousands of lives... melodramatic. No minister has that kind of authority in this country. People too 'into' the minister might be hurt and led astry because their eyes and ears were on the wrong man.
When one puts their faith in a man, any man, he is apt to be disappointed. Men, even the best ones, can have feet of clay. So can women. Because one reaches a position of authority doesn't mean he doesn't need the love, forgiveness and grace the Lord offers. One shouldn't go to church to worship the preacher or the building.
I won't go on; it would take a book. The church where the doors closed.. if that congregation was really interested, they could have started a church in someone's home, anywhere, started over. Because one door shuts doesn't mean another won't open. The fact is, a church building won't heat itself. If the people don't support the place financially, then it falls apart. Simple math.
People who don't want to worship, don't want to go to church, don't want to forgive or a host of other don't wants make choices, sinful choices, just as Swaggart et. al. did. No one is without sin. No one.
A minister making a mistake causing thousands of lives... melodramatic. No minister has that kind of authority in this country. People too 'into' the minister might be hurt and led astry because their eyes and ears were on the wrong man.
Good Morning John.
I never once said I didn't forgive Jimmy Swaggert, I felt sorry for him at the time. I have looked him up on the internet and he is still doing what he preaches against. I will throw no stones his way, believe me. But I do not think he should be a minister of God.
When people first become Christians they look to the people who teach them and instruct them in the things of Christ. These people in the pulpit are the very representatives of Him. Can you say that Pat Robertson doesn't have the authority or the leadership of thousands of people? People look up to him as if he was God himself because he claims to be a minister of God. Christians everywhere follow this man and his teachings because they think he speaks for God.
Our church was a mission church, and while the main church continued to support missions in other countries the mission closest to home was abandoned. The people of our church were devastated. Many did go on to find new churches, but many like myself had a very hard time adjusting and felt abandoned by the very church that said we were a family.
I have forgiven all the people who have wronged me. Sometimes the pains of the past rear their ugly heads, but I deal with that. I keep pushing them back into the well of forgiveness. But I also think it would be very stupid for me to put myself back into the situations again that have caused me such anguish.
Because it was in my nature, for whatever reason, to look up to people who claim to be close to God and know his word, I have found that it is in my best interest to stay away from them. I think a little blood from Martin Luther must run in my veins for I believe I don't need a minister or priest to mediate for me in my relationship with God.
I choose to live my life following what I believe the golden rule is. I hope to extend to everyone the forgiveness and grace that I hope to attain. I choose to show compassion and love to the best of my abilities because those are things that I cherish from others and would hope to receive as well.
I never once said I didn't forgive Jimmy Swaggert, I felt sorry for him at the time. I have looked him up on the internet and he is still doing what he preaches against. I will throw no stones his way, believe me. But I do not think he should be a minister of God.
When people first become Christians they look to the people who teach them and instruct them in the things of Christ. These people in the pulpit are the very representatives of Him. Can you say that Pat Robertson doesn't have the authority or the leadership of thousands of people? People look up to him as if he was God himself because he claims to be a minister of God. Christians everywhere follow this man and his teachings because they think he speaks for God.
Our church was a mission church, and while the main church continued to support missions in other countries the mission closest to home was abandoned. The people of our church were devastated. Many did go on to find new churches, but many like myself had a very hard time adjusting and felt abandoned by the very church that said we were a family.
I have forgiven all the people who have wronged me. Sometimes the pains of the past rear their ugly heads, but I deal with that. I keep pushing them back into the well of forgiveness. But I also think it would be very stupid for me to put myself back into the situations again that have caused me such anguish.
Because it was in my nature, for whatever reason, to look up to people who claim to be close to God and know his word, I have found that it is in my best interest to stay away from them. I think a little blood from Martin Luther must run in my veins for I believe I don't need a minister or priest to mediate for me in my relationship with God.
I choose to live my life following what I believe the golden rule is. I hope to extend to everyone the forgiveness and grace that I hope to attain. I choose to show compassion and love to the best of my abilities because those are things that I cherish from others and would hope to receive as well.
Just curiosity, but what is Swaggart still doing that you found on the internet?? Sexual sins? Are the sources reliable? I haven't anything about him in several years.
I'm glad the Lord will judge us at the end and not people who can be so unforgiving of others' sins.
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